Curse

wtfisgoingon · Dec 09, 2008, 02:13 AM // 02:13

People like to stereotype the Assassin class being attracted only towards Naruto fans and little kids. These are just stupid/ignorant people, probably Americans which equals zZz.

Imo, the Assassin class is unique just like they are pretty unique and appealing in most of the other MMO's I've played.
Their playing style is different and appealing, their swift moves and animations define eastern arts = unique and cool.

Some people like the hit and run style, which I believe is the more of an eastern style. Some people prefer the stand and hit style, western style I guess?

Given that, all classes are fun imo, just depends on your taste. Only profession I found boring was the Paragon = zZZzzz.

Assassin is my main character , I play it how ever I want to play. I dont bring an elite just because other people tells me to, I bring which ever skills I found enjoyable to me.

Assassin armors: Okay, this part is ridiculously stupid. Spikey sin armors = retarded. FoW and Elite Cathan armors are the only two armors I love on the male sin. FoW and Seitung for female.

Celeborn10 · Dec 09, 2008, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Stop sitting on the WoW. Teleports and stealth have been bad in almost every PvP setting. See LoTRO, the game is centered around PvE, and the PvP is an AB-like setting. Rangers can be interrupted like they're dazed and there's no bodyblocking! A certain class can teleport out of danger at a whim and Thieves/Wargs can knocklock/shutdown/cripple like a combo of Rangers, Hammer Warriors and Mesmers rolled into one. Then look at Warhammer where there are tanks sporting aggro-control in PvP. Guildwars has quality PvP mechanics (dodgeable projectiles, bodyblocking, limited skillbar) and it was originally meant to have an intense 8v8 PvP endgame. It's just that the hardcore PvP community has been diluted and PvE has been brought to the forefront while other PvE-centered MMO's have made their own strides in improving their PvP. What GW especially has in its favor is that the players are limited to 8 skills per bar which greatly limits the balance issues. As for what the Assassin could be, perhaps a bit like the LoTRO burglar but focusing on interrupts to disable and shutdown while using stances (think Shadow of Haste) to move in and out of combat (melee mesmer). LoTRO burglars/wargs aren't too bad on their own; it's combined with their stealth that they become sadistic shutdown killers. GW's Assassin leaves a bit to be desired in regards to its inflexible chain. Assassin is still fun to mindlessly steamroll with.

Bobby2 · Dec 09, 2008, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by petrorabbit

Hmm, I think you misunderstood me. Never did I say that stealth would be easier to manage than shadowsteps, especially to GW. I responded to your comment here:

All I did was provide an example to your sweeping generalization, that stealth has been successfully integrated into an MMO without ruining game balance. Of course, it took time and work to get it that way, which all games require to achieve something close to balance, GW included.

Well, you did say stealth was successfully integrated while maintaining overall class balance (right?) Shadowstepping has never come close to that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by petrorabbit

Do I want GW to have stealth? I wouldn't mind it, but I won't lose sleep if it doesn't. Done properly, with time and effort, either mechanic can be balanced.

Guess we'll agree to disagree here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by petrorabbit

If you have no faith that ANET can learn from their mistakes and actually do something right, why do you still bother?

Because I hope to see Assassins return as the class they deserve to be, if at all.

*hoping for glorious new easy-to-balance surprise mechanic*

lord_shar · Dec 09, 2008, 07:58 AM // 07:58

There are numerous variables ANET can modify to adjust Shadow-stepping: cast time, range scaling based on scores, energy cost, etc. Regardless of what is changed, any teleportation bypassing blockers is preferable to flat two-dimensional combat, and kiting just sinks the experience further into a single dimension.

GW's body-blocking mechanic itself is broken anyway... after all, why can't a standing player walk over a knocked-down / prone opponent?

Stealth / invisibility can easily be implemented in GW2 -- just make it a pve-only skill if it proves itself too powerful in pvp. I'm hoping 3D combat also makes an appearance, but that's really wishing for a lot.

Rick Thene · Dec 09, 2008, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Y'know, if they can implement jumping into GW2, maybe they can give Sins wall jumping and ledge climbing...
That would give them extra, class specific mobility and "surprise".

Parkour Assassins oh yeah!

Celeborn10 · Dec 09, 2008, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Thene

Y'know, if they can implement jumping into GW2, maybe they can give Sins wall jumping and ledge climbing...
That would give them extra, class specific mobility and "surprise".

Parkour Assassins oh yeah!

They could ditch the element of surprise and instead implement skills that help that Assassin to get away wrathful players and be decently useful for Assassins to use (monks get more usage out of Shadow Arts). More disruption would also be nice (note how Disrupting Stab takes 1.33 seconds to execute and has a pitiful effect compared to Dchop or Dshot?).

The major issue with 'surprise' is that when other classes have the ability to spec as Assassin to gain the same 'surprise', balance becomes FUBAR (teleporting Warriors). Perhaps make the primary attribute more about survival/surprise and Shadow Arts about meleemancer disabling abilities.

ensoriki · Dec 10, 2008, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celeborn10

They could ditch the element of surprise and instead implement skills that help that Assassin to get away wrathful players and be decently useful for Assassins to use (monks get more usage out of Shadow Arts). More disruption would also be nice (note how Disrupting Stab takes 1.33 seconds to execute and has a pitiful effect compared to Dchop or Dshot?).

The major issue with 'surprise' is that when other classes have the ability to spec as Assassin to gain the same 'surprise', balance becomes FUBAR (teleporting Warriors). Perhaps make the primary attribute more about survival/surprise and Shadow Arts about meleemancer disabling abilities.

before I shadow step out of here until later.

I have a dream (said in a MLK junior voice), where sins will have their utility buffed, and their damage nerfed!

I also have psychic powers that let me see that people disagree with me.

*shadowsteps out*

FlamingMetroid · Dec 10, 2008, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

I have a dream (said in a MLK junior voice), where sins will have their utility buffed, and their damage nerfed!

*plays patriotic music*

The Meth · Dec 10, 2008, 01:19 AM // 01:19

I always thought the sin would be best with its focus more on mesmer-like trickery that debilitates enemies, alongside the shadowsteps and a moderately powerful chain that could assist in kills easily.

The problem is that if Anet likes my idea they will just make some random skill like [Hidden Caltrops] insanely imba again (and require another nerf) instead of changing numerous skills into a viable but not overpowered state.

ensoriki · Dec 10, 2008, 01:32 AM // 01:32

In a-nets defense it's easy to make things imbalanced.

I have this pet project on my computer (because I have no life) where I play with the numbers of Sin skills for my ideal balance update crap, and I remember goint to Locust fury.

And I came up and thought
Make it non elite? Or improve it. I tried to keep it elite by making it so it made you 5....21..23 Shadow Damage in melee (like All melee) and still have 50% chance to Double strikes.
I then realized that....21 armor ignoring damage with Double strikes is kinda stupid since a double strike meakes that 42 damage, and with 12 dagger mastery you have 74% chance to Dual strike in conjunction with Locust fury which means, your dealing about 42 damage in reality every time you attack, and your attacking basically in seconds, and it's kinda stupid...

Or I make it non elite...and it's still kinda stupid =P.

Im just saying.....then again I went through my idea a couple times and fine tuned it a bit =P...

...you know what why the hell am I talking...I don't even remember the point of what I was saying..

Bobby2 · Dec 10, 2008, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Oh no, not Locust's again

If only it would have an effect on attack skills. Why I would say: just make it an IAS.

Then I looked at [way of the assassin] and its recent(ish) history, and realized Locust's will never be buffed.

The Meth · Dec 10, 2008, 02:11 AM // 02:11

The thing is, buffing stuff like Locusts is what I didn't want. The focus is not on damage, but on support and debilitation.

And seriously, who at Anet thought Way of The Assassin was balanced with the +33% IAS. Have they even played the game?

Let me throw out a random assassin-y skill I just thought up that I kinda like. Tell me how you like it, possibly could use some balances but it should illustrate my idea.

Wall of Smoke (5e 0c 20r): for 1...3...4 seconds, every ally in earshot is under the effect of Wall of Smoke. The next time they are hit with a physical attack all adjacent enemies are blinded for 5 seconds. Shadow Art's skill.

Basically I would like to see the assassin's attributes focused like this:

Dagger Mastery: Damage obviously. Should still be made into spike-like chains, but chains should be kept well out of the instant kill range.

Shadow Arts: Trickery-based defensive abilities, both protecting allies and messing up enemies. Like the above skill. Less self based stuff and more stuff targetable at any ally and/or enemy.

Deadly Arts: I kinda like how this is used at the moment. I would like to see all ranged deep wounds that the assassin has either changed to melee range or elite. If we do that Deadly arts would have more room to become a balanced attribute instead of gimmicky.

snaek · Dec 10, 2008, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

...you know what why the hell am I talking...I don't even remember the point of what I was saying..

in ur example, u made a connection from a to b
now imagine doin that for hundreds if not thousands of other possibilities
thats skill balancing
it can be overwhelming...but its not hard really
jus takes time and patience
and of course a deep understanding of the system as a whole

izzy only somehwat has a clue because thats his job and he usually has numerous ppl helpin em out in that department
but one thing he lacks is time
as u can tell by the numerous "quick fixes" he does

i tend to find that those who r good at making builds
tend to be good at skill balancing
i would personally like to see wut izzy has saved in his skill templates folder

ensoriki · Dec 10, 2008, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

The thing is, buffing stuff like Locusts is what I didn't want. The focus is not on damage, but on support and debilitation.

And seriously, who at Anet thought Way of The Assassin was balanced with the +33% IAS. Have they even played the game?

Let me throw out a random assassin-y skill I just thought up that I kinda like. Tell me how you like it, possibly could use some balances but it should illustrate my idea.

Wall of Smoke (5e 0c 20r): for 1...3...4 seconds, every ally in earshot is under the effect of Wall of Smoke. The next time they are hit with a physical attack all adjacent enemies are blinded for 5 seconds. Shadow Art's skill.

Basically I would like to see the assassin's attributes focused like this:

Dagger Mastery: Damage obviously. Should still be made into spike-like chains, but chains should be kept well out of the instant kill range.

Shadow Arts: Trickery-based defensive abilities, both protecting allies and messing up enemies. Like the above skill. Less self based stuff and more stuff targetable at any ally and/or enemy.

Deadly Arts: I kinda like how this is used at the moment. I would like to see all ranged deep wounds that the assassin has either changed to melee range or elite. If we do that Deadly arts would have more room to become a balanced attribute instead of gimmicky.

Earshot range? Seriously? Im already thinking of paragon-esque abuse in where a bunch of people with /A could have this (with possibly say Dash or whatever I dunno) and just annoy melee by syncing the cast... though I could be overlooking into things.

DM needs more pressure/other focused attacks. Like say...Exhausting Assault, I mean...Wtf Is Nine Tailed Strike doing...

Shadow arts being party related sounds kinda....out of sync to me, sin's should be more like Warrior/Mesmers and in that I mean... they're focus is the enemy, not necessarily buffing their team mates >.>

The Meth · Dec 10, 2008, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Well, it would only last 1 or 2 seconds unless you seriously spec into shadow arts, and its 20s recharge. Not to mention it could get taken off by a single ranged attack. If your whole team wants to go /A and near max or max shadow arts just to keep blind on enemies be my guest. I see its use as a good get out of jail free card for helping the backline, but not able to be used enough to rely on it to stop everything. As it stands it would basically be an Incoming! type skill, except non elite, but weaker and only working on melee.

I don't think of assassins as really buffing the teammates, more like tricking an enemy into disabling themselves (semantic difference mostly, the end effect is largely the same). I don't see a problem with it, as far as assassins in guild wars go they are more like tricky mercenaries then straight out knife in the back assassins. I have them pegged as a ranger-type class except spells instead of interrupts, preperations and such, using daggers instead of bows.

Rick Thene · Dec 10, 2008, 10:09 AM // 10:09

One thing with that suggested skill, perhaps make it end if you make an attack or successfully cast a spell?

The Meth has it spot on. That is definitely what I'm hoping for Sins in the future.
Until then, eh...

Bowstring Badass · Dec 10, 2008, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Oh no, not Locust's again

If only it would have an effect on attack skills. Why I would say: just make it an IAS.

Then I looked at [way of the assassin] and its recent(ish) history, and realized Locust's will never be buffed.

Honestly they should just rebuff wota back to 33% faster because it only affects daggers now or change the percentage for +% to critical with the one to attack faster...

wtfisgoingon · Dec 11, 2008, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Well, it would only last 1 or 2 seconds unless you seriously spec into shadow arts, and its 20s recharge. Not to mention it could get taken off by a single ranged attack. If your whole team wants to go /A and near max or max shadow arts just to keep blind on enemies be my guest. I see its use as a good get out of jail free card for helping the backline, but not able to be used enough to rely on it to stop everything. As it stands it would basically be an Incoming! type skill, except non elite, but weaker and only working on melee.

I don't think of assassins as really buffing the teammates, more like tricking an enemy into disabling themselves (semantic difference mostly, the end effect is largely the same). I don't see a problem with it, as far as assassins in guild wars go they are more like tricky mercenaries then straight out knife in the back assassins. I have them pegged as a ranger-type class except spells instead of interrupts, preperations and such, using daggers instead of bows.

To people suggesting sins go range type now, no thank you, many people including I would prefer the swift melee type. Sorry.

X Shadow Reaper · Dec 14, 2008, 11:46 AM // 11:46

PVE: a poor class though i chose it because it looks good

FlamingMetroid · Dec 14, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Shadow Reaper

PVE: a poor class

Quote:

assassin

ur doin it wrong, VERY wrong